All good questions Ben, and I think you're right, no one knows, so every org has their own definition. I know for the NZAS ECR Slack that I founded I was very conscious of not wanting to be exclusionary around the definition. So I ended up making it as wide a definition as possible, including students and not putting a time limit on post-PhD. My thinking was that PhD (and actually even Honours and Masters students) are creating knowledge/researching and are impacted by precarity too. And if they continue in research they will be affected by the policies that we are trying to change today. And at the other end, sometimes those classed as no longer ECRs by the funders are still existing in a precarious state without a permanent job. So I wanted to include all of those people who have a stake in advocating for change to our current system.